Šňupání VS injekční aplikace VS kouřový heroin
- Thread starter DieYoung
- Start date
Vysoká biologická dostupnost neznamená vždy to nejlepší. Ve skutečnosti záleží na tom, co si pod pojmem "nejlepší" představujete. Neznáte látku a chcete ji vyzkoušet? Vyzkoušeli jste ji několikrát a nemůžete přijít na to, která vám nejlépe vyhovuje? Jste zkušený uživatel a chcete překonat toleranci? atd.
Děkuji jen mě zajímá další otázka ovlivňuje tolerance benzo toleranci opiátů?
- By Paracelsus
Navzdory odlišným primárním mechanismům mohou mít benzodiazepiny i opiáty překrývající se účinky na některé mozkové systémy, jako je mezolimbický dopaminový systém, který se podílí na odměně a závislosti. Chronické užívání obou drog může změnit chemii mozku a fungování receptorů způsobem, který může ovlivnit celkovou citlivost centrálního nervového systému na různé tlumivé látky CNS. Stručně řečeno 
- By Amphetfred24
Pokud mohu něco dodat, benzo a heroin jsou špatná kombinace.
Dokonce i pro lidi s velkými zkušenostmi.
Za svou kariéru jsem se předávkoval šestkrát, pokaždé při míchání benzosu a heroinu.
Léta jsem také kouřil + léta injekční stříkačky. Zřídkakdy jsem šňupal..
Heroin může být krutá milenka
Dokonce i pro lidi s velkými zkušenostmi.
Za svou kariéru jsem se předávkoval šestkrát, pokaždé při míchání benzosu a heroinu.
Léta jsem také kouřil + léta injekční stříkačky. Zřídkakdy jsem šňupal..
Heroin může být krutá milenka
Injekce je tak nebezpečná, je mnohem těžší se předávkovat při kouření, protože cítíte účinek po každém zásahu imediatly, šňupání a injekce jsou riski becaues jste příliš 100-200 mg na jedné lince a čekat na kick a někdy heroin může být řezané s somethink dokonce smrtící, pokud jde o injekce je to samé si vstříknout plnou dávku a to kick imediatly, ale pokud heroin byl špatný můžete zemřít z normální dávky cítíte bezpečí, takže můj nejlepší ROA je kouření jeho litteraly pokud heroin je silný můžete usnout dlouho předtím, než se předávkovat
For some reason I had almost no effect while smoking from foil, tried several times with tolerance breaks with no effect
- By loadingST
Are you on methadone, or probably a heavy injecter ?
This is kind of what happened to me I think. Ever since the fentanyl epidemic, my ceiling for opiate tolerance has been ridiculous. Trying to go back to anything weaker than fentanyl doesn't allow me to get a "high". I used IV when I could but mostly sniffing street bags. Now I use 80mg of methadone syrup orally daily and even the strong stuff doesn't hit like it used to. I've never had much luck with smoking it, always just seemed like a huge waste.
- By Blammo
Theses are all theoretically helpful, seems varying degrees.
The most recent and promising is SR17018. An experimental drug, it seems to be able to help reduce tolerance and I believe offset withdrawals. Double check me on that, but there are some reports on reddit of this being very helpful for people addicted to potent drugs like fentanyl, the zenes, spirochlorphine, ultra potent opioids known to jack up tolerance quickly.
Second is ultra low dose naltrexone, or ULDN. I can't remember how it is supposed to work, but I believe it is helpful in reducing tolerance buildup. Not 100%, just slowing it down. I don't think it inherently reduce tolerance like SR17018, just reduce the build up rate. It was investigated to for distribution in a pill with oxycodone, but for some "odd" reason they didn't finish the trials IIRC. It's super low doses, I forget exactly but like 1 to 20 micrograms, not milligrams, micrograms a day.
NMDA antagonists. They supposedly help reduce the rate of tolerance build up as well. Seems memantine is a good choice, but if you don't have access, then dextromethorphan, the cough syrup ingredient, does the same thing. Consider taking a longer acting syrup like delsym, as that will keep the drug in your system longer.
Together, this can reduce the rate of tolerance build up and with the SR 17018, make it easy to reduce usage and quit.
I've wanted to see what happens if someone used all three from the start, and see how fast tolerance builds up.
The most recent and promising is SR17018. An experimental drug, it seems to be able to help reduce tolerance and I believe offset withdrawals. Double check me on that, but there are some reports on reddit of this being very helpful for people addicted to potent drugs like fentanyl, the zenes, spirochlorphine, ultra potent opioids known to jack up tolerance quickly.
Second is ultra low dose naltrexone, or ULDN. I can't remember how it is supposed to work, but I believe it is helpful in reducing tolerance buildup. Not 100%, just slowing it down. I don't think it inherently reduce tolerance like SR17018, just reduce the build up rate. It was investigated to for distribution in a pill with oxycodone, but for some "odd" reason they didn't finish the trials IIRC. It's super low doses, I forget exactly but like 1 to 20 micrograms, not milligrams, micrograms a day.
NMDA antagonists. They supposedly help reduce the rate of tolerance build up as well. Seems memantine is a good choice, but if you don't have access, then dextromethorphan, the cough syrup ingredient, does the same thing. Consider taking a longer acting syrup like delsym, as that will keep the drug in your system longer.
Together, this can reduce the rate of tolerance build up and with the SR 17018, make it easy to reduce usage and quit.
I've wanted to see what happens if someone used all three from the start, and see how fast tolerance builds up.
That is some very interesting information, I have never heard of any of it. I have actually heard of the naltrexone being useful, but it was not used in the same manner. It was taken in small amounts on a daily basis to alleviate withdrawal symptoms or something, but it was just another "myth" of addict trash talk to me.
I've been my own guinea pig for about 25 years, this whole journey, especially walking the tightrope of opiate addiction, always trying to figure out if I can get a free lunch, or skip one, or substitute one, and just trying to reach for the stars and falling into the deepest pits.. and keep up with tomorrow... has made it one big learning curve that I am still struggling with and trying to get right.
This is definitely some interesting stuff to look into. If there can be a mechanism built into a tablet for example, of course they don't want that secret to get out. Letting that little chippy grow into full blown AIDS is death sentence
It was alot easier to kick when it was just heroin and whatever opiate. I used to be able to take a suboxone after 24 hour from last dose. Now even waiting over 48 sometimes, still only precipitates the worst withdrawal symptoms you can imagine - I am so scared of the Naloxone factor that I submitted to the one thing I always tried to resist and am terrified of - a methadone addiction. ...because of the withdrawal stories. Suboxone wasn;t really effectove with fentanyl addiction so much, atleast for me. Subutex is a product that has the buprenorphine without the naloxone. It could be pretty useful for most users. but I haven't been able to find it - I did get ripped off for a 100 pack of counterfeit ones though, at one point (years ago).
So you're saying taking DXM with the opiate works to extend the half life or some simillar effect to a degree?
That would be great to know. Or any other such manipulations.
Thank you for your time and information.
o7
This is definitely some interesting stuff to look into. If there can be a mechanism built into a tablet for example, of course they don't want that secret to get out. Letting that little chippy grow into full blown AIDS is death sentence
It was alot easier to kick when it was just heroin and whatever opiate. I used to be able to take a suboxone after 24 hour from last dose. Now even waiting over 48 sometimes, still only precipitates the worst withdrawal symptoms you can imagine - I am so scared of the Naloxone factor that I submitted to the one thing I always tried to resist and am terrified of - a methadone addiction. ...because of the withdrawal stories. Suboxone wasn;t really effectove with fentanyl addiction so much, atleast for me. Subutex is a product that has the buprenorphine without the naloxone. It could be pretty useful for most users. but I haven't been able to find it - I did get ripped off for a 100 pack of counterfeit ones though, at one point (years ago)
.So you're saying taking DXM with the opiate works to extend the half life or some simillar effect to a degree?
That would be great to know. Or any other such manipulations.
Thank you for your time and information.
o7
- By Blammo
First, please double check me, as it's been a little while since I've reviewed this actively.
SR17018 seems to do two things, help prevent withdrawals, and also actively reduce tolerance. So like a sort of different acting methadone (helps prevent withdrawal symptoms and cravings) and seems to reduce tolerance over time (a faster reduction in tolerance than other methods). Seemingly very helpful with addiction to ultra potent opioids like fentanyl
I don't believe it prevents tolerance builf up actually, but I'm still investigating. Seems to prevent withdrawal, and reduce tolerance.
NMDA Antagonists
DXM, and other such drugs, seem to help reduce the build up of tolerance. So if you would increase your dose say 10% after one week of using, you might only need to do so at say 7%. Numbers are only to demonstrate the idea, not exact. Doesnt stop it, just slows it down.
I forget the mechanism, but dxm is a common nmda antagonist that is relatively cheap, and very available. Other drugs do the same thing, like memantine, but are prescription drugs.
Ultra Low Dose Naltrexone.
ULDN seems to slow tolerance build up as well, and might require less doses of the drug for the same effect. The tolerance build up is slowed down, and it seems ot make lowering your dose more comfortable. This was tested for analgesia, no recreational effects, and it made one dose of morphine as effective as a lower dose, again analgesia only.
Seems that twice a day dosing is best, but the exact dosing is forgotten, like 20 to 50 microgrsms a day maybe? Very very very low. One could buy some naltrexone pills, do some math for liquid suspension, and be set for years if dissolved in grain alcohol and keeping in freezer.
Together, I think one could really help keep opioid addiciton under control better. Tolerance would be managed better, and the sr17018 would help reduce tolerance comfortably when you need to take a break.
SR17018 seems to do two things, help prevent withdrawals, and also actively reduce tolerance. So like a sort of different acting methadone (helps prevent withdrawal symptoms and cravings) and seems to reduce tolerance over time (a faster reduction in tolerance than other methods). Seemingly very helpful with addiction to ultra potent opioids like fentanyl
I don't believe it prevents tolerance builf up actually, but I'm still investigating. Seems to prevent withdrawal, and reduce tolerance.
NMDA Antagonists
DXM, and other such drugs, seem to help reduce the build up of tolerance. So if you would increase your dose say 10% after one week of using, you might only need to do so at say 7%. Numbers are only to demonstrate the idea, not exact. Doesnt stop it, just slows it down.
I forget the mechanism, but dxm is a common nmda antagonist that is relatively cheap, and very available. Other drugs do the same thing, like memantine, but are prescription drugs.
Ultra Low Dose Naltrexone.
ULDN seems to slow tolerance build up as well, and might require less doses of the drug for the same effect. The tolerance build up is slowed down, and it seems ot make lowering your dose more comfortable. This was tested for analgesia, no recreational effects, and it made one dose of morphine as effective as a lower dose, again analgesia only.
Seems that twice a day dosing is best, but the exact dosing is forgotten, like 20 to 50 microgrsms a day maybe? Very very very low. One could buy some naltrexone pills, do some math for liquid suspension, and be set for years if dissolved in grain alcohol and keeping in freezer.
Together, I think one could really help keep opioid addiciton under control better. Tolerance would be managed better, and the sr17018 would help reduce tolerance comfortably when you need to take a break.