percorso piacevole ed efficace per l'autosintesi di 2b4m (avg 50 usd a kg)

Dr. MMX

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Ehi, io scriverò solo i reagenti utilizzati per scelta oculata (prezzo/sforzo) che si possono acquistare in Europa.
quindi 1°
PCL5 con zolfo elementare > cloruro di tionile

cloruro di tionile + acido propionico > cloruro di priopionile

Sintesi di 4mp (qui c'è un topic quindi mi limito a linkare):
Cloruro di propionile
Toluene
AlCl3 anidro

http://bbzzzsvqcrqtki6umym6itiixfhni37ybtt7mkbjyxn2pgllzxf2qgyd.onion/en/threads/synthesis-of-4-methylpropiophenone-from-toluene-by-friedel-crafts-reaction-1kg-scale.209/


alcuni possono avere problemi a brominizzarlo
L'acido solforico, necessario per ottenere l'Hbr, è un po' costoso e non è spesso disponibile. Invece usiamo:
acido fosforico e NaBh per la reazione > otteniamo HBR
H2O2 12% può essere acquistato e distillato fino a una percentuale maggiore, come il 25-30%.

quindi
4 metilopropione + HBR + h2o2 > 2b4m :)

Non ho calcolato il costo ma è molto basso e non c'è bisogno di aspettare la spedizione o di essere sorpresi da un precursore di bassa qualità.
 
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chost

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può spiegare in modo più dettagliato come si fa l'HBR?
 

Dr. MMX

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Mi dispiace davvero di aver commesso un errore, è corretto:
Per produrre acido bromico (HBr) dall'acido fosforico (H₃PO₄) e dal bromuro di sodio (NaBr), è possibile utilizzare una reazione di doppio spostamento. La reazione può essere rappresentata come segue:


  1. Reagenti: Acido fosforico (H₃PO₄) e bromuro di sodio (NaBr).
  2. Prodotti: Acido idrobromico (HBr) e fosfato di sodio (Na₃PO₄).

L'equazione chimica bilanciata della reazione è:


H3PO4+3NaBr→3HBr+Na3PO4


In questa reazione, l'acido fosforico reagisce con il bromuro di sodio per produrre acido bromico e fosfato di sodio.
 
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chost

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È necessaria la distillazione?
E in quanta acqua devo sciogliere il bromuro di sodio?
 

Dr. MMX

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In che altro modo pensate di ottenere una cosa che è fondamentalmente un gas? :)

Dipende dalla percentuale che si vuole avere, il massimo è il 47% se non ricordo male e dovrebbe essere già così
 

Benz88

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is it Safe to Distille the h2o2 to maybe 30-35% from 12%?
 

Dr. MMX

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TheVacuumGuy

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H3po4 con NaBr per produrre HBr? Proverò a farlo tra poco.

Ho un sacco di HBr, ma sono curioso di sapere se i due reagiscono.
 

Dr. MMX

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sì e Na3PO4
 

Dr. MMX

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è meraviglioso
 
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TheVacuumGuy

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Didn't work. I think it would be easier to add sulfuric acid to a solution of KBr (or NaBr) , which would readily yield HBr at 125c
 

Dr. MMX

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I tried to override having sulfuric acid becasue here is troubles to get it. It was very extreme attempt
if there is access to sulfuric acid its easy job
 

Dr. MMX

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you can get elemental bromine from potasium bromide, dont need to use acids.
it was quite cheap as i remember
 

Toddler

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Hbr2 48% can work ?
(CAS.No: 10035-10-6)

how much ration use for bromination
Hbr2
H2O2
for 100g of 4MPP
 
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TheVacuumGuy

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Roughly,

H2o2 50ml
HBr 100ml
 

Toddler

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for 100g of 4MPP
 

w2x3f5

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Instead of propionyl chloride, can use propionic anhydride (obtain phosphorus oxide from propionic acid), can also use propionic acid directly with polyphosphoric acid (there are many options for this reaction, you can choose the best one). If propionyl chloride is used with anhydrous aluminum chloride (can be replaced with cheaper and simpler options). Then it is best to carry out a bromination reaction before hydrolysis in Fridel-Crafts (the complex of 2b4m and aluminum chloride is very active for bromination with a high yield).
 

Dr. MMX

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In chemistry trade buissness in europe propionic acid is considered with "silent restriction" with reason it can be used as biological weapon, so should be avoided there.

very interesting choice of propionic anhydride
 

Osmosis Vanderwaal

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@TheVacuumGuy you gave him bad figures and he used them and probably ruined 100G 2B4-MP. I dont know what he paid, but I got $200 all day for 10g if it's domestic . In th rules there are a few gold nuggets. "Use the fucking search engine." That's a rule. Another one is " a good chemist i an accurate chemist." Make sure that you clearly state you are guessing when you don't know. You could say nothing at all, you could show your math or you could tell him he needs to figure it himself, but please, dont just throw out random numbers, with no disclaimer.
 

TheVacuumGuy

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Show me what's wrong then. I used these figures with success. note that hydrogen peroxide is a solution of 35%.
 

TheVacuumGuy

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i stated roughly , not stoicimeticly


reactants Coeff Molar Mass Moles (g/mol)Weight (g)
C10H12O1
148.20168
0,67100
HBr 180.911940,6754,595831842122166
H2O2134.014680,6722,951615663196257

products
1
C10H11BrO1227.097740.67153,23560434672535
H2O218.015281,3524,311843158593074

HBr 48% = 8.77 mol/L => for required 0.67m corresponds to 0,0764L (76ml)
h2o2 35% = 11.63 mol/L => for required 0.67m corresponds to 0,0576L (57ml)

Yes that's a bit off from 100 and 50, but these numbers are theoretically, which almost never applies in practice. ( like a mephedrone synthesis is given methylamine x2 but theoretically only needs x1/5 )

furthermore excess reagents are neutralized afterwards.
 
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William D.

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Therefore, it is better to control the bromination visually in the reaction of the bromine, because the quality of reagents (especially chinese) can be different. 4mp purity rarely exceeds 95%.
 

w2x3f5

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The best solution is the preliminary titration of 4MP, then it will be possible to use the correction factor for 4MP
 

TheVacuumGuy

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